{The List} - Technology

[Jaguar]

This is the thread for all technology-related ideas. I will post a few ideas of my own once this thread gets going.

[Kuciwalker]

I like C3's tech system

[Jaguar]

So do I. The eras were extremely good for organizing the tech tree, and I like the system that has lasted for three generations of civ games. However, there are a few problems I wish to address, such as the idea of using a spy to "steal" the concept of Fascism from another country.

[Sandman]

Some ideas:

Fewer redundant, dead-end techs.

Make empire size a factor in research costs.

Remove eras. They're not much fun, IMO.

Remove stealth, smart weapons and integrated defense from the modern tech-tree. Replace them with a single tech like 'precision warfare' or something like that.

Restore fusion to its rightful place at the head of the tech tree.

There are innumerable little changes I'd make. For example, sanitation (I'd call it public health, myself) should be a requirement for medicine, not the other way around.

[Kuciwalker]

Stealth and Smart Weapons should be seperate, IMO.

[Roman]

Originally posted by skywalker
Stealth and Smart Weapons should be seperate, IMO.

Agreed!

[Brent]

Culture- Specific Technology

At the beginning of the game, let different Culture Groups have their own technology tree. At the very beginning, maybe even let individual standard civilizations have their own tree. The trees gradually merge. When you meet another civ, their technologies become available for you to research. The American Culture Group cannot research writing until late ancient times. There can be multiple writing technologies, but they would not correspond directly to Culture Groups. Writing technologies can include Pictographs, Cuneiform, Glyphs, Hieroglyphs, Syllabary, and Alphabet.

Scientific Trait

Scientific Civs can have their actual research rate actually faster, like the University faction in SMAC.

[gopher]

I like the C3's idea of ages, i.e must get enough of them to move on. How about as time goes on, older techs become cheaper to research? Or as more civs get techs, it costs less, representing the ability to not only reverse-engineer, but also of the fact that the civ knows the idea can be done, and therefore has a higher probability of sucess?

[Cras]

Originally posted by gopher
I like the C3's idea of ages, i.e must get enough of them to move on. How about as time goes on, older techs become cheaper to research? Or as more civs get techs, it costs less, representing the ability to not only reverse-engineer, but also of the fact that the civ knows the idea can be done, and therefore has a higher probability of sucess?

This is already true. The more civs that have the technology, the cheaper it is and the quicker it is to develop for your self.

[Optimizer]

The tech tree in Civ 3 is too deterministic, too "narrow". Players - both human and AI - should have to make more decisions on what branches of technology to research. (My experience tells me that the tech tree of Civ 3 was made as streamlined as it was to help the AI.)

[JDexter]

Originally posted by Sandman
Remove eras. They're not much fun, IMO.

Eras are great, keep them!

For example, sanitation (I'd call it public health, myself) should be a requirement for medicine, not the other way around.

In history only the Black Death thaught people the concept of sanitaion/public health. The plague was ONLY fought back because Medics (and other smart people ) proposed to clean the cities (i.E. Nuremberg was one of the first cities to lock the plague out by enforcing some sanitation/cleanliness).

[Sandman]

Eras are great, keep them!

Why, what's so great about them? Removing eras allows for greater customisation for your civ, for example, shooting towards navigation for an island civ, or ignoring warfare techs for a peaceful civ. Makes each civ more unique.

In history only the Black Death thaught people the concept of sanitaion/public health. The plague was ONLY fought back because Medics (and other smart people ) proposed to clean the cities (i.E. Nuremberg was one of the first cities to lock the plague out by enforcing some sanitation/cleanliness).

Realising the link between filth and disease is not the same as medicine. Doctors were still prescribing all sorts of crazy cures well into the nineteenth century. Pasteurs germ theory of disease was the turning point.

[Fosse]

I'd like to see a system with two tech trees.

One that is full of theory and cultural "technologies" - monotheism, democracy, theory of gravity, etc.

This tree would not be directly impacted by the player or AIs. Instead, this one will grow "naturally" depending on various factors such as Game Year, Size of Population (world and civ), "openess" of society (fundamentalism vs. democracy), relative education levels of civs, and your populations exposure to other civs (basically, do you have contact? And with whom?).

This technology tree represents those things that people know, but governments don't actually devote time or resources into figuring out, for the most part. The English monarchy never ordered Newton to discover the theory of gravity... he did it on his own. Technologies in this tree are still discovered by individual civs, but once they are then the learning of them by others (who have contact) are greatly sped up. No country every "traded Philosophy" for gold!

The other tech tree would represent those things that a country could reasonably pour research into... such as military technology and infrastructure. Most of the techs that enable improvements, diplomatic options, nuclear weapons and units would fall into this category.

The two tech trees would have required technologies in the other tree.


I think that this will greatly enrich the game. For one thing, it gives the player another strategic option when it comes to increasing tech levels. If they opt for the direct approach, then they pick the techs they want and pour the money into them. If they opt for the indirect one, they can build universities, open more trade routes with far off nations, and raise the standard of living in their country.


Potential problems with this idea:

Tech dead ends... Okay... if I want to build nukes but "tactical nuclear weaponry" has a required "theory" tech that I don't have yet.... then I'm understandably frustrated. How to avoid this, while keeping the system in place?

One solution will be to allow me to try researching nukes anyway, which would appreciably speed up the "discovery" of fission, allowing the practical application of vaporizing cities. This would simulate the leaders of a country saying "I want a better way to transport the masses from one end of the country to another," which gets some creative mind thinking, "what if they FLEW!" and he goes off to dream up the theory of aerodynamics.

Potential problem 2: It isn't Civ.
The argument that change is bad, drastic change is worse, and that this proposal is a drastic change. I put little stock in this argument, but recognize that others do.

Potential problem 3:

... I don't know... but I'd be glad to think about any that the rest of the posters might have.

Comments? Questions?

[POTUS]

I like this idea, but how about that the player can support research on the "theory" tree, i.e. research grants.

[Fosse]

Originally posted by POTUS
I like this idea, but how about that the player can support research on the "theory" tree, i.e. research grants.

Okay... how about on the tech screen, after you discover universities, you can click on a button called "grants," and set various categories to fund. Sort of like SMAC's blind research.

Grants would have a small influence on the discovery of theory-based.